The Bulletproof Marriage Pt.3 Money & Debt

TBM-Pt 3-Money & Debt - Are you managing your finances well, or just surviving?  Is money a blessing, or a burden and source of conflict in your relationship? With 42% of divorced people stating credit card debt and overspending were the cause of their split, having control of our money is vital to enjoying a bulletproof marriage. In today's episode, discover one of the greatest enemies of your marriage as Gil and Liz share personal experiences, insights, and Biblical wisdom to get your marriage and money on the right track! Whether you’re married or preparing for marriage, this series will equip and empower you to build a relationship that truly is bulletproof.  

📖Scripture References: Hosea 4:6, Romans 13:8, Matthew 25:14-30, Proverbs 15:27, Proverbs 22:7, Proverbs 21:5

📖 This series is based on Dream Marriage Vol. II: The Bulletproof Marriage by Bishop Duane & Sunny Swilley — grab your copy here: https://a.co/d/0gUgck2i

Click here to listen to our last episode."The Bulletproof Marriage Pt. 2 Marriage Detox!"
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hey, this is Pastor Joe from the Father's House PC at Jetson Beach Florida, and we welcome you to our weekly podcast. Thank you for joining us today for the Roman messages and genuine conversations. We hope dreams and God's promises for you are awakened and restored. Be inspired, be challenged, and be reminded that God has not done with your story, and he has more for you than you can think for a man. Enjoy the message. Today at the Father's House in Jensen Beach, we continue in the Bulletproof Marriage Series. And we're going to be talking about marriage's biggest influences: money and debt. But first, we invite you to follow the show, share this episode, and we appreciate it. We've been excited about each episode, but we are especially looking forward to this topic. It's very personal to us, and there is much to share. This will probably be one of the most candid discussions because of our experiences with money and debt. Mistakes were made, stresses and conflict came into our relationship over money, which we'll share with you along the way. So, Liz, this morning, would you share with us what God has put on your heart concerning this issue?

SPEAKER_01 1:30

I am really excited to share about this issue because, like you just said, it's very real, very personal to us because of what we've experienced. And, you know, there's nothing that I'm I'm finding out this. There's nothing that I'm really enjoying more than to be able to sit down and talk with people about money, the handling of finances, maybe working over their budget. I just I'm I'm loving that. And I think it's really cool. It's just something that God has, I think, built in me over the years. But um, there's just truths and principles about money that when we don't know them, our lives can suffer, our finances can suffer, you know.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yes, we can.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

But what's important to realize is that money doesn't change people, it reveals people. And when you understand money, but it does not control you, God can trust you with more. You know, have we ever just looked at worldly people? I mean, the millionaires and the billionaires who have seemingly great success with money, and they might not even know the Lord, but yet they're so prosperous. And yet there are others in the church that I know of that are poor, they're wrapped up in debt, they don't have any idea how to handle money. So think about that. I I realized something in this. If you begin to read some of their lives, they took the very principles of God and they used them. And gravity is a principle, it doesn't matter who uses it, believer or unbeliever, you're gonna jump off a roof, you're going to fall, you're not going to fly. I just thought it was interesting that God's principles are those principles, and there are those money principles. And when we use those money principles in our lives, it will change our lives. So people have money issues because God's principles for life and finances aren't followed. Money is addressed from cover to cover in the Bible. Abraham, Father Abraham, was a very wealthy man, and that wealth he passed down generation to generation. Issues of idolatry and greed were so dangerous that God began warning, advising, teaching, and commanding us to pay very close attention to our relationship with idolatry and greed. Do we realize that the Ten Commandments are framed? The first one deals with idolatry, and the tenth one deals with covetousness. So money can really be an issue in our heart. You know, Jesus said to seek first his kingdom, and all these things will be added unto you. And do we realize also that 15% of Jesus' teachings were on money and how we manage it? Now that's key, and that's something that we're gonna get into in a minute. But Gil, we know money and debt issues definitely affected our relationship. And as we begin, we'd like to ask our listeners a question. We'd like to ask our listeners actually to ask yourself a couple of questions. Is money currently a blessing or a burden in your relationship? Is money currently a blessing or a burden in your relationship? When you and your spouse talk about money, is there peace or is there conflict? That's really important to figure out because if there's conflict, there's areas that will definitely need some work in perhaps by both people. Here's another question: Is everything between you and your spouse with finances open and honest? Or are there secret purchases? Do you have separate bank accounts? Because if we're not honest with one another about money, the probability is very high that there is dishonesty in other areas of the relationship. Again, money doesn't change people, it reveals people. And Gil and I, we were kind of talking about this one because in our household, you know, Gil will go, he'll go um like to Home Depot and he'll buy a tea there. We're on this new diet of just resetting our bodies, and sugar is not on that diet. So if he happens to go into Home Depot and just see that gold peak sweet tea and he buys it, I know it because receipts come in, or I'll see the receipts, or as soon as he makes a purchase at a Chick-fil-A, you know, we just know everywhere that our money's being spent, and that's good. And he knows when I go out shopping, he knows if I've gone out to Alta or something, we know what's going on, and um, that's great. In in our relationship, we shouldn't have hidden passwords or anything. We should all know how to get into every bit of every one of our accounts that's openness and honesty. If they're separate accounts, ask yourself why are they separate? Is there either a control issue with one of the spouses or a trust issue? Or perhaps one of the spouses was raised in a family where money wasn't handled well, and so they just can't trust, they just have to see. There's all these different things that can come into our lives through our upbringing that can affect us in our marriage. So um people usually don't have money problems, they'll have marriage problems or they'll have spiritual problems, and those affect our finances. Money is usually the symptom, it's usually not the core issue. So what we began to realize is that if we're married, it's a we issue. It's not an I issue, it's not a they issue or your issue. No, if there's issues in our relationship, these are we issues. We entered into covenant with one another before God, we make decisions for our relationship, we discuss things together, but that wasn't how we always operated. You know, first we Gil and I did not operate with a good, solid financial plan and vision. We would talk about it, but we didn't set down a plan, or if we did set down a plan and a vision, we didn't follow it. And so therefore, we suffered the consequences, we made our share of mistakes, we just acted or reacted, or we could impulse by and not even think about the consequences. We didn't stick to a plan, we operated very independently from one another for quite a few years, and um that independence just opens up areas and doors for things to go on which which can be devastating.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Yeah, I want to share a story. It's been years now, um, and still feel the effects of this story even today. But years ago, I got I got wind of some potentially good investments in oil, and now you're all laughing, but that's where it was. But I'm in good company. Donald Trump lost money in oil, a few other guys lost a lot of money in oil.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Mike Murdoch.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Mike Murdoch lost money in oil. But this was the problem. I heard the sales pitch and I went along with it and looked at it a little bit, and uh I decided, man, I'd really like to get in on this this oil because I saw where it was heading or where I thought it was heading. And so as I listened to this guy speak, I I got off the phone with him and I and I went over and talked to Liz and I said, Liz, I really want to invest in this oil. We didn't discuss it. I told her what I wanted to do. We didn't discuss it. That's right, and she was not in agreement with me, and I didn't want to hear at the time because I was so sold on this investment that I thought I knew I knew what was best for our family at that point, and you see, at that moment in time, I broke covenant with my wife. Anything that was we was now I. And so I invested in this oil thing, and it really did not produce anything to speak of right out of the gate. And then I believe, and the time frame might be a little different here, but about a year into it, if that the company just dissolved, disintegrated, went belly up, and did and was gone. And I lost a substantial investment in oil at that moment with absolutely no recourse. Why? Because I and my wife were not in agreement. We had gotten married so that we would be in agreement and that we would live as one. And I broke that agreement and lived as I instead of we. And so we suffered, we lost a substantial amount of our savings due to pride, covetousness, selfishness, and whatever other word you want to throw at it because it was all there.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

So well, we weren't operating on this one premise, and we do now, but it's powerful that we will not make major decisions and go forward on them unless we are in agreement. And if one of us doesn't feel right about it, even if the other one doesn't understand, we are not going to go forward in that major decision until we are both in agreement. And sometimes I might really feel God is saying to do something, or you might really feel God is saying to do something. But if one of us isn't in agreement, you know, that's the time to go back to the Lord and pray. Okay, Lord, did I hear right? Or I really feel I did, then if I if I heard right, Lord, then you're able to change Liz's heart, you know, and bring us into agreement. But we wait for that now. And if we would have just waited on that, we would have had that amount of money in our savings account growing instead of losing it with no ROI whatsoever. But we didn't share common goals and work together to see them achieved. See, when you set down goals and plans and you're working together towards it, if this impulse comes up to maybe buy something, you're not gonna do it because that if it doesn't fit in with the plan. So, and there you're in agreement. You're like, well, oh gosh, I would really like that, but we just don't think it's the best decision to make right now. We didn't live with the mindset that if we don't have the money, we didn't buy it. You know, it was too easy to rip out a credit card. And I remember when our credit card got high, and you know, gosh, it gets high quick, and we'll get into that a little bit later. But um we didn't realize what we could and could not afford. Why? Because we didn't have a plan. What was our goal with our money? How much money did we want to save that year? How much are we going to give and tithe? How much are we going to save first? And then our need spending and our discretionary spending um goes after that. We just didn't operate like that. So therefore, we racked up that debt. We didn't properly budget and save. You know, I was thinking about this, it was like our base scripture was Hosea 4, 6, my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. And we literally were. Our financial life was basically destroyed. We squandered and we lost money because of not having wisdom. You know, a few years back, I got tired of living like we were, and I just began to study and read and listen to teachings about godly money principles and saving and investing. But there's a scripture in Proverbs chapter 4, verse 6 through 7 that's so good. It says, Don't turn your back on wisdom, for she will protect you. Love her, and she will guard you. Getting wisdom is the wisest thing you can do, the Bible says. And whatever else you do, develop good judgment. Oh my gosh, if we'd have just lived right there in Proverbs chapter 4, verses 6 through 7, it would have been such a great course for our life to have been on. But let's look into something. The first married couple, Adam and Eve, were tasked with managing the Garden of Eden. And remember, I said earlier that Jesus, 15% of his teachings were on money and how we manage it. So let's go back to the book of Genesis and see what the Bible says. Number one, God's first mandate for marriage was to manage. God gave them the garden, but he didn't manage it. He didn't even name the animals, he tasked that job to Adam. God didn't manage it, he left it to man to manage. God gave them every resource they needed. God fashioned all of his children to know how to manage their lives and their marriages, and nothing has changed today. So if we want a bulletproof marriage, we must prove to God that we'll be a good steward of what he has given us. And you see, so that's part of our regret. We realize and we look back and we go, oh my gosh, Lord, we didn't handle wisely what you so abundantly gave us. And that's where regret can come in. But that can be a good place to be. You can't stay in that regret, but you can repent of what you did and make a turn, make a turn and begin to learn how I should handle my money, what should I do with it? So there's always hope in God, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

So in Matthew 25, 14 through 30, Jesus is talking about the parable of the talents. This story is literally a picture of God giving his children gifts, skills, talents, and finances. So the story goes: a man goes on a journey and he hands over a portion of his possessions to his servants. He gives five bags of gold. In research, you'll find that's about two million dollars at that time. And the servant he gave it to, that servant began to invest the money. The second servant he gave two bags worth eight hundred thousand dollars, and that servant went to work. The third bag he gave had four hundred thousand dollars in it. He gave him one bag of gold. It was four worth$400,000. But that servant dug a hole. So the first two he gave more money, and then in the end, when he came back, and those first two servants said, Hey, I took your five and I multiplied it to 10. And the one that had two, he said, I took your two and I multiplied it to four. I went to work. The first one said, I went to investing, so they were rewarded with more responsibility. The hole digger, the master took his money, gave it to the first man who had the most money of all three of them, and then he cast the hole digger out of his presence. Wow, you see, and this is a principle. You steward well what God has given you, and he can give you more. The third servant said, Master, I knew you to be a harsh man. I didn't want to see you lose what you gave me, so I just hit it. No, God is looking for what we will do with what he has given us to multiply it. So in the kingdom, this parable is showing how those who have more get even more. And those who don't have, it can be taken away from them. When something is given to you and to me, it's given to us so that it will grow. If it doesn't grow, it's taken from us and given to someone else who will grow it. Oh, it's not called entitlement, it's called knowing how to be wise and to do the right things with what we are given. We are the ones that can squander it away when we act foolishly or when we make bad decisions. If we're faithful with it, we will get more. It's just a principle. But why would God give us more blessings if what he has given us is causing us to struggle? You know, I just have to go back to Proverbs. I can't tell you the number of scriptures in there that say get wisdom, get understanding. That means go after, get them, acquire them. If you don't know how to handle money, get with someone who does and let them set you on a great financial path. Get yourself out of where you are, and you can get there by gaining more knowledge. You can get there by studying, you can get there by learning and researching, listening to what other people do. And that can be in both the good way and the bad way. The bulletproof marriage understands that what God has given us, He expects us to manage. That makes a good bulletproof marriage. So let me ask: how are you stewarding what God has given you? He gave things to you and to me to care for. We are stewarding it.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Just a just a side note, this has popped into my mind, but you know, I don't want us to lose track. Just because we're we're discussing money here today, I don't want us to lose track on the stewardship part. I want to speak to the men. You asked your wife to marry you. You asked her to join you in part of your life. You you said that you would have to hold her, you would take care of her and love her and sickness and health. How well are you managing that part of your marriage? Are you taking care of her? I'm not talking about just the physical needs.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

the desires i'm talking about her emotional needs and and what she desires and how she handles things and are you helping her in some of her fears and and whatnot are you really helping to manage her and to grow her and and to see her through her trials you see i think one of the things in our relationship my wife is very astute she loves to teach and she has a background in finance and so forth and that doesn't mean that my responsibilities are over in those areas I have to help her manage these areas that God has given us uh it might be part of her gifting but we still need to manage it we still need to take care of it we still need to uh encourage it and grow it so as a family as a husband and as a man it's your responsibility to protect her by helping her manage I'm not saying rule over her I'm talking about helping and being part of it that's the really interesting point that's really good because as you were talking I'm thinking okay women how are we quote managing our husbands are we providing their needs are we sensitive to to their needs and their wants are we treating them with respect and honor that's just a really good point excellence is a spirit and it's a mindset and it's not necessarily something that we're born with we can develop it but Holy Spirit excellence in our lives it's it's very powerful here's a really simple story but I remember hearing Juanita Bynum teach on this and it really spoke to me and now I can't be in a parking lot and not have the Holy Spirit say to do this she talked about how the Lord taught her a part of excellence and that was to not just leave her grocery cart by her car. He said walk it back to where it goes and you know that's hard to do if it's raining or if it's hot or if you're tired or if it's cold or whatever. But it was really easy to just leave your cart right there. But he said no walk it back and put it where it belongs. And so after I heard that I every time I was in a parking lot I'd hear that myself so oh gosh there I am walking carts back. That's just a little thing but that's developing a spirit of excellence.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

You know Liz as you're talking about this because I remember I remember the teaching and so in my travels I do the same thing but sometimes I take it a step further um I'll see someone in the parking lot and they're struggling they're they're loading up their vehicles or whatever and I'll say may I take the cart back for you oh wow and when I get to the place where you put the carts you'll see where perhaps other people have just tossed the cart in there and it jumbles up and turns sideways and everything's a disarray well if we're to manage and to think about people more than ourselves how much longer you think it would take than this particular instance to just straighten out those carts a little bit put them in order so that the next person behind you can put a cart in there without sticking it out in the middle of the road how much longer would it actually take you to be a person of excellence and thinking of the person uh that comes after you that's great.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

As you're talking I was thinking about how are we stewarding our jobs? How do we treat our time on our jobs? How are we stewarding and taking care of the cars and the houses that the Lord has so abundantly blessed us with are we taking care of them because when we're faithful with what God has given us he can give us more and it's just again a principle of God. So you know God desires to give us many blessings and have any of us been asking God for more if you have it may be time to stop and ask him to give you wisdom to manage what you already have. Amen so I want to move into sharing on the danger of debt. As I was thinking about this sometimes I realize that we have to see what we shouldn't do to know what we should do. And that's what happened in our lives we saw what we shouldn't do when our debt got out of control and we had multiple thousands of dollars in debt on a credit card alone. It happens very quickly one of the greatest enemies of your marriage and finances is that it leaves a huge gap in your protection from the enemy thus preventing you from really developing the bulletproof marriage there are so many scriptures I'm only going to share two one is Romans 13 verse 8 owe nothing to anyone except to love one another. And Proverbs 227 says that the rich rule over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender slave to the lender if we don't make payments we lose it you don't make payments on your house you lose it if you own your house outright nobody can come and take your house nobody can come and take your cariture or your appliances the thing with debt is that debt shows impatience which reveals greed if we're not willing to wait on something and and buy within what we can afford then it's revealing something there. I remember when our finances were really bleeding we were drowning in debt we were selling assets to pay things off and we met with a financial advisor and he said something that has never left me he said I hate debt that's all he said. But when he said that it planted a seed that began to grow you have to hate debt you have to hate debt and if you hate it bad enough you'll do what it takes to not get into it we wanted to be debt free except for our house mortgage a mortgage is one area that because it is such a large expense that you have to buy wisely buy within your means so because of some changes that we began to make we were later able to buy a new truck to us it wasn't new but it was a couple years old in cash. So we must understand something if I could shout this with a megaphone I would do it debt is the most aggressively marketed product in the history of mankind just let that sink in debt is the most aggressively marketed product in the history of mankind you see it everywhere credit cards, car loans, student loans even on Amazon or in different ways to pay a firm and karma you can now spread payments out on a very small amount what is happening is borrowing is presented as normal well I can't afford it so I'll just borrow. It's presented as normal it's presented as easy it's even presented as desirable credit cards are great zero percent interest or spend this amount of money and you get this amount of points and you get these airline points but while debt is so aggressively marketed and even shown as desirable the long-term consequences of the interest of the stress and of the bondage are very often minimized and they're not talked about so real quickly let's look at something credit cards average interest rate 23 to 25% America's total credit card debt 1.28 trillion trillion with a T in 2025 this is the highest in US history what is this showing us we have become a debt ridden society over 600 million credit card accounts exist$10,000 is the average credit card debt per household$10,000 credit cards are deeply embedded in the American way of life and high interest rate can make them hard to escape. So the results are this just after infidelity debt and money issues are the leading causes of divorce in a 2025 survey 42 42% of divorced people say that credit card debt or overspending was the cause of their divorce that's almost half of the divorces that was up in three years from 29% in 2023 29% divorced people say credit cards and overspending was the cause of their divorce 29% in 2023 34% in 2024 to 42% in 2025 that is up 31% in three years. Now basically that's 10% a year just think of that trajectory and where our marriages are going financial infidelity is a real cause of separation and conflict in marriages it's hiding from your spouse your spending it's hiding credit card debt it's gambling sports gambling sports gambling is becoming very huge but it's also becoming a very huge problem and Gen Z listen to this about Gen Z. Two thirds pointed to credit card debt as their cause of their divorces two thirds of Gen Z marriages are getting divorced because of credit card debt. 66% Wow wow over 50% of Gen Z admitted to hiding debt from their ex-spouse you see how can we have blessing where there's dishonesty and we're not walking in covenant in one of the most influential areas in our marriages two-thirds of divorcees never sought professional help before filing for divorce and what's even more sad is more than 50% surveyed said that they took on new debt following their split. So no lessons were learned it's our perception of debt we just think it's normal and it's just a part of life but God doesn't like debt because why? Because we're not free we're slave to something so debt robs you from your future it reveals impatience which is a form of greed let's just read a couple other scriptures Proverbs 1521 no I'm sorry Proverbs 1527 he who is greedy for gain troubles his own house that reminds me of a story oh women we've already said something about it my investment in oil yeah troubled your house it sure did troubled your finances yes it did Proverbs 215 good planning and hard work lead to prosperity but hasty shortcuts lead to poverty you see if we want the quick way to get rich we're not going to get rich your biggest wealth building tool is your income it's your income if your income is all tied up in car loans student loans furniture loans credit card loans karma payments it's not being invested do you know that the normal car payment today is$750 a month and I don't know the exact statistic but the number of people driving off a car lot with a car payment per month of over$1,000 is becoming very common. Over$1,000 a month in a car if we invested a thousand dollars a month into something that grows 10% calculate it out you would have so much more money than what you just spent on it every day you drive it it depreciates in value. So there is an old song that my dad used to sing and he'd sing I owe I owe so off to work I go remember that I owe I owe so off to work I go but then I had a thought here what if we didn't know what if we didn't know right now we're debt free except for our house mortgage and it's a good feeling it's a good feeling the bulletproof marriage is one where the spouses work together to plan budget give and invest it's a marriage that's free of financial problems and debt wow that's good that's enlightening and if we listen to what was just spoken it could give you some direction in your life it could help you in your marriage that was really good.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

So I have to I have to ask you a question do you treasure your marriage more than money houses cars or things what where is your heart what do you treasure the most see God has a beautiful purpose and design for your marriage as a couple one of oneness fulfillment closeness and intimacy if you're not working with a common goal and you're not in agreement with each other you're not going to be fulfilled you're not going to have closeness and you sure ain't gonna have intimacy.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

So if we do the things his way he's responsible to protect you through your covenant with which you and your spouse and God had made a bulletproof marriage is exactly that it's bulletproof from every dart that the enemy wants to throw at you I want that to sink in the enemy is after you and your marriage I think the most powerful thing on this earth is marriage the covenant where two shall become one and uh the devil hates that because God designed it strife and debt affect your peace your unity and your spiritual protection so how did you respond to the beginning question is money currently a blessing or a burden in your relationship? Because if it's a burden there are doors in your life that need to be closed. So what do we need to do?

SPEAKER_00 38:26

One of the things you need to do together to close these doors is to pray together and ask God for wisdom and guidance. Make covenants and be accountable to one another you see covenants are the template that holds each other accountable very important very very important if you were listening you found that we broke covenants and we were not accountable to one another and we got into problems. Discuss what financial habits may need to change there's a big one what are some of your spending habits when you get married those habits have to come together and you have to be in unity. You have to plan a but plan and budget and live within your means you may not be able to buy clothing next week or next month because you have other bills that are more pressing so you have to plan for that make sacrifices get out of debt whatever it takes pray and plan and work at it it's not going to be easy but you have to do what you have to do and do it in agreement. And the rewards of it are so worth any sacrifice that we have to make we're talking freedom and and the marriage is tight yes this isn't just a message it's part of the mission of the father's house and we care about your family and your future we care about your freedom I just want you to know that you don't have to go through this alone and if you see the need for your marriage to be more bulletproof or if you're feeling the weight of financial stress or debt or tension around money sometimes we need help to get on the right track. If we didn't learn about covenants and learn about being one we would have been off the rails a long time ago but God sent us Bishop Dwayne Swilly and Sonny to help us get on the right track. I want you to reach out we're here to serve you pray for you help you guide you towards bulletproof marriage and financial peace. And today I'm excited to share with you that Liz has completed her financial coach master training and is now available one-on-one to help you gain clarity, build a plan, and move forward with confidence onto a solid foundational path. If you're ready to take the next step with your marriage and your money we'd love to connect with you. Our website our contact information are in the show notes below and we invite you to join us here at the Father's house every Sunday at 1030 a next Sunday is Easter Resurrection Sunday it's a season of renewal and dead things come back to life and it's your time it's your season for a breakthrough and we'd love to see you. So until next time God blessing if you've enjoyed the podcast be sure to subscribe click the share button and take a screenshot and share it on your social media pages tag us at the Father's house T and visit us at TFT.org for more information up less